Since our last episode of The Chairish Podcast, the world has completely shifted due to the coronavirus. On this episode of the Chairish Podcast — called Creativity During The Crisis — design industry insider Michael Boodro connects remotely with Anna Brockway, co-founder and president of Chairish; entrepreneur Peter Sallick, founder of the Design Leadership Network; and acclaimed designer Celerie Kemble to discuss ways for design firms to navigate the coronavirus crisis, and how, by joining forces, the design world can survive the pandemic—and thrive in its aftermath.
In this episode, our guests tackle:
- How the design industry can evolve as we face this crisis together
- Thinking about what this means for teams, including those within firms and also the artisans, tradesmen and partners that work closely together on projects
- How to elevate your design business and advance into the future
- Operating remotely, exploring different technologies and how to best connect with your team while working from home
- Communicating with vendors and clients so you can continue to develop projects, even though times are uncertain
- The impact of the postponement and cancellation of design and industry events
- How Chairish is supporting the design community, brands and partners through the launch of the first-ever online Virtual Preview as well as features on the vintage dealers of High Point
- Breaking down short-term, medium-term and long-term strategies when thinking about your business
Additional resources:
- The WFH Edit via Chairish
- 10 Ways Remote Workers Can Improve Communication Skills via US News and Report
- How Interior Designers Work With Clients In The Time Of Corona Virus Mandated Social Distancing via Forbes
Connect with Chairish and our guests on Instagram:
- Chairish: @chairishco
- Michael Boodro: @michaelboodro
- Anna Brockway @annabrockway
- Peter Sallick @petersallick
- Celerie Kemble @celerie
Lead Photo Design by Celerie Kemble / Photo: Stephen Karlisch
READ AND LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE EPISODE:
Michael Boodro 0:00
This is a Chairish podcast and I’m your host Michael Boodro.
So much has changed since we recorded the last episode of The Chairish podcast. The world is completely different, and it seems that it will be for a while. And when we do finally return to normal, normal will likely be far different from what we are used to. The way we work and live has been transformed, at least temporarily. Even this podcast is being produced remotely, so I hope you will bear with us if the sound quality is not as clear as usual. But whatever changes the Coronavirus brings, I’m convinced that home will be more important than ever, and that the design business which brings beauty, joy and comfort too, so many people will come back stronger and more vital than before. But how do we make it through from now until then? I’m pleased to have three guests who see the big picture and can take the long view. They are full of ideas and practical advice for how firms large and small can survive the fallout of this crisis, and how the design industry can work together to support each other through these unprecedented times. First in Connecticut I want to welcome Peter Sallick the CEO of Waterworks, who is also the founder of the Design Leadership Network, a membership organization of more than 450 architects, designers, landscape designers and brands. Welcome Peter.
Peter Sallick 0:22
Hi Michael. How are you?
Michael Boodro 0:47
Good. I’m also pleased to have from Palm Beach, acclaimed designer Celerie Kemble of Kemble interiors firm she founded with her mother that has offices in Palm Beach, New York and London. Celerie, thanks for being here.
Celerie Kemble 1:58
Hi, nice talking to you.
Michael Boodro 2:01
Finally, from San Francisco, we have Anna Brockway, the co-founder of Chairish with her husband Gregg, who is already developing innovative solutions to help vendors brands and brick and mortar showrooms whose product launches and sales have been jeopardized by the cancellation of so many spring markets and events, including High Point, Salon del Mobile Mobileye in Milan and LCDQ in LA. Welcome.
Anna Brockway 2:23
Hi, Michael. Thanks for having me.
Michael Boodro 2:24
Glad you’re here. Okay, Peter, I want to start with you. Because I know you’re having almost daily calls with your members – 450 members. That’s a lot of anxiety and uncertainty to be dealing with. So what have you been hearing from your members? And what have you been telling them?
Peter Sallick 2:40
Thanks, Michael. First, I just want to say that I’m so happy to be on this call with four people who I’ve known for so many years and have enjoyed working with for so many years. To me, that’s representative of a community right there. These calls that we’re doing are one of the innovations that I think is relevant to understanding how the design community can evolve, as we face a crisis like this, and then elevate and advance our business into the future. So designers and architects, I’ve always believed, operate very, very independently. And so having the chance to connect has been at the core of the DLN’s mission. So what we’re doing is effectively moving a segment of our programming from the offline world to the online world, and giving our members a chance to connect on essentially video calls in groups of 10 where we have a moderated discussion of various topics. And so on these calls, they really range incredibly, from conversations about Outlook, and emotion and feelings are really trying to harness up positivity and connectedness and look forward to really nuts and bolts considerations about what’s happening in supply chains, the ability to get product, and comparing notes on what’s happening at job sites. And of course, very importantly, this is for people really thinking through what this means to their teams, and to the people they work most closely with within their firms, and also the artisans and tradesmen and partners that they work with closely around their projects. So it’s a time for really as much as anything, comparing notes. And I think that alone is very important, in addition to obviously the takeaways that people have individually from these conversations.
Michael Boodro 4:26
And I want to ask you, Celerie, because you are like a microcosm of what Peter’s dealing with all of his members. I know you, because you have offices in Palm Beach and London and New York, and you are used a little bit to working remotely, but how is it for you dealing with your team at this moment when I know everyone’s freaked out? A lot of designers have to furlough some staff members or lay them off. People are concerned about projects continuing and new projects coming in. How are you dealing with your team? Do you have a daily phone call? How does that work?
Celerie Kemble 4:56
Well, things have changed enormously for me in the last two weeks. We sort of disbanded from our New York office, at the point at which New York school children were told that they weren’t going to be coming into school anymore for myself and for two of the other girls who had kids. And I said to my team that everybody at that point should go to where they felt safe or where they felt they could take care of their family. And what happened, which was sort of new to us, we’ve never had a group text where the whole office is on one thread. And it was very funny to see it come together, almost the same way my children have with their class. And it’s this ongoing dialogue, which has resulted in a different level of sort of compassion for each other’s projects, and a whole nother level of battiness. I mean interspersed with practical questions about vendor closings, and you know, whether somebody is going bankrupt or not, there are, like repulsive and wonderful photos for sharing. So I think we’re still in a moment where we’re exploring different technologies. But in a weird way, our communication has become a lot more immediate and intimate. And there’s less division between projects. We’re in one chat, and everybody’s talking at once. And it’s kind of been fun.
Michael Boodro 6:26
Right? I think communication and connection is more important than ever. I mean, we’re all isolated in our homes. But I’ve been reaching out to people that I haven’t talked to in a while. So have you reached out to all of your clients, and all of your artisans, that kind of thing? Is that something that you’re proactive about?
Celerie Kemble 6:45
We sent out notes individually to all of our clients, saying that we hoped to encourage the progression of their projects in any ways we could, but that we were going to respect their feelings. So in terms of communicating with our vendors and clients, we sent an email to everybody saying we want to proceed, but we’ll respect the pace you set. And to help our vendors understand what work is coming, even if we don’t have deposits right now. Or if they aren’t shipping, we’re sending purchase orders. So they see, and we’ll write on it, you know, this order will be confirmed upon your ability to ship. But please place this in your pipeline and know the work is coming. Because I think right now, the uncertainty is just disabling and will, in some cases, push healthy businesses into a dark hole, out of fear. So we’re trying to let people know that we still have clients, we have deposit money coming in, we just don’t know the timelines.
Michael Boodro 7:50
Right. Because I think that fear and freaking out is the worst thing that we could do now. But of course, it’s basic human nature, that the unknown is very disturbing, and rich people can see. Which are freaked out more, your clients or your vendors and artisans or both equally? Are we all freaked out?
Celerie Kemble 8:13
It seems to be by personality type. I have some clients who are ready to batten down the hatches and go to their private island and let the world hit Armageddon. So we’re not hearing much from them. And then I have others who are saying, you know, what can I do? How do I help? Should we front load this to give people work? It’s a really amazing sort of indication of how people choose to participate with the world.
Michael Boodro 8:41
Right? I think in these crises it’s very revealing and one of the things that impressed me about what Chairish is doing is you started out almost immediately, it seems to create alternatives. The minute things started being canceled, and we realized this was not going to be a two week slowdown, that this was gonna be months, you came up with some interesting plans to help designers who didn’t have High Point. So could you explain a little bit about what Chairish is doing and what kind of response you’re seeing from your vendors and the designers that you sell so much product to?
Anna Brockway 9:14
Yeah, so we identified, you know, almost immediately when we saw the cancellations happening or postponements and High Point is a big one but also LCDQ, market weeks that happen all around the country at design centers. And in many of the really important, especially for our vintage business, antique fairs. So Brimfield was canceled, Roundtop was canceled. I mean, all these things are not happening. So that’s a huge impact to our selling community. As you can imagine, in the sense that people plan for long periods of time on collaborations to launch new lines of these events, or in the case of our vintage dealers have been sourcing well in advance sometimes over the course of you know, a whole year to properly present at these shows. And so that means there’s a lot of people sitting on inventory and innovation that just didn’t have a way to get seen in the traditional way. And so the notion of what we’re trying to do, we’re calling that a virtual preview, which is to provide a way, specifically for the contemporary brands. And by that I mean the non- vintage players to come and access our audience of interior designers and really present their product releases and everything that they have planned to present at all these shows and market week.
Michael Boodro 10:31
Some of these product launches have been in the works for more than two years. Yeah, the Olympics of design, you know, is suddenly canceled.
Anna Brockway 10:39
It is and so much work goes into it. And for many people, it’s essential for their business. And so the idea of that going away, to Celerie’s point, is really scary. So what we’re doing is a virtual preview. And essentially, what it is, is an online editorial series. We’re inviting all kinds of brands, some of whom we’ve worked with historically, some of whom this will be our first time working with them, and each host has their brand leader representative to do a two to three minute webinar to present their line to designers. And then also to link to a product presentation on the site where people can actually go by item and really explore the line. And so far, we have 32 brands signed up. I’m happy to say Peter from wWaterworks is the first person to join us. So thank you, Peter.
Peter Sallick 11:29
The first one on all these kinds of things.
Anna Brockway 11:33
We like having you first! It’s been a really great reception because of exactly what’s already described. There’s a lot of uncertainty, and the idea of providing an online way for people to connect and to communicate, and to stay inspired and stay connected, I think is what’s needed right now.
Peter Sallick 11:52
And, Michael, I’d love to add a couple of comments on that. And, you know, I think these are just phenomenal efforts that Chairish is undertaking to really help the community. I think that the DLN is also looking to support its partners and members in a similar way, by creating a platform for brands to share information about what’s happening in their companies directly with our members. This idea of finding new avenues of communicating and sharing information is actually in some ways daunting, because we all have to sort of be willing to try things. But it’s also exciting to be able to find new ways to connect across our community. And I think the digital approach to doing it ultimately will augment the offline ways that will come back. But I do think it’s exciting to have more ways that will innovate as we work through this short term crisis here.
Michael Boodro 12:50
Right. And in the interest of full transparency, I do want to point out to the listeners that I do work with the DLN, as well as with Chairish obviously at the Chairish podcast. So I’ve been really impressed with how the DLN team has been reaching out to people in setting up these calls and inviting participation. But you know, I do want to point out that they’re not the only group that’s doing that. There are other people and designers who have their own casual groups that used to meet monthly for cocktails, or whatever and discuss, which is one of the things I’ve always loved about the design community. The design community has always been very supportive of each other. And it’s always amazed me that designers will share information and resources and go to other designers to help with their problems. And I think this is amplified. But there is a lot of fear out there. And a lot of businesses are hurting. And in my career several times I’ve had to lay people off, which is like probably the worst thing you ever have to do. And I think companies are dealing with that. Now. I’m sure Peter, you could speak to that from some of the calls. Do you guys have any sense of how long you think it’s going to be before people calm down and people can get back to work? Are we talking a two month disruption or a four month disruption? What do you think?
Anna Brockway 14:07
So, I think that what we’re seeing in our business is just volatility. So we’ll have really great days and then we’ll have really not great days, and it’s bouncing up and down.
Michael Boodro 14:18
And bounce up and down according to the stock market?
Anna Brockway 14:22
Oddly, no. You would think so. Everyone’s like, wow, that’s a brave buy today. No, it’s volatile. And so I think that one of the things that we’ve thought about, and I think this is what everyone’s struggling with is trying to figure out, like how long is this going to last. Like what’s the duration of this chasm we’re crossing through? And how do we prepare for that? And that I think for most people means really focusing on conserving resources so that you can go the distance here. So for us in terms of what we’re thinking, I mean, you know, the worst case scenario could be until the middle of June until we start to see things turn around. And I think that’s what you have to plan for. And you have to hope that it’ll get better. So that’s how we’re looking at it.
Michael Boodro 15:11
So have you if you had to think about or make contingency plans even? I’m not, obviously not naming names but you think, oh, I may have to reduce my team or I may have to put off doing certain things. Have you gotten to that point yet? Are you still in just general freakout mode, which I’m kind of in?
Celerie Kemble 15:29
Well, we’re very regionally responsive. So I’m seeing as our company still has responsibilities in different states. We have projects in Florida, California, Connecticut, and New York. And the work rules have been different for each. And we’ve only had a couple of weeks to see this, but I’m imagining over the next year, there might be rolling work stoppages, where perhaps New York and California right now are at a standstill. But it wasn’t until just a day or two ago that North Carolina stopped shipping. And I think Anna may be in a very interesting place to work with her vendors in different states to sort of highlight who can ship when. So I think people might be comfortable with a month of inaccessibility, but knowing you can buy something, and we will start learning that, hey, there may be six week lags. But as long as truckers are going, and once a certain state opens, workflow can happen. We’re not laying anyone off, because our projects, thankfully, take almost two years. So it will take us some time to hit a wall. I’m hoping we don’t. But I think everyone’s expectations are lowered and retracted.
Peter Sallick 16:53
Right. But what I was gonna say, Michael, is that I’m hearing on DLN community calls and generally counseling that people try to break this down into short term, medium term, long term strategies with the view that because there’s so much uncertainty, and because we don’t know, rather than try to come up with one sweeping change in the way they think about their business, or to think too short term, to try to create scenarios that reflect what the next month or two months might look like. And then, what it might look like down the road so that you’re prepared for each stage of this. And then the only thing I would say, as well as I’m personally focused on really trying to keep track of the medical side of this, because ultimately, until people feel safe, I think it’s going to be very hard for kind of normal economic activity that drives our design community to resume at the level that we might want.
Michael Boodro 17:54
So, in other words, you’re saying that we all have to become a little bit of scientists in terms of listening to Dr. Fauci and all of that, because it’s not until it really peaks and really goes down. Because even when the numbers go down, that doesn’t mean people still aren’t getting sick, or transmitting the virus. So you’re saying take the longest view about when people are going to be comfortable about?
Peter Sallick 18:19
Well, I’m saying I think for companies to come up with, like, for example, for the businesses I’m most associated to, we’re saying, okay, here’s a plan that we’re putting in place for the next 60 days or 90 days and then we’ll reevaluate so that we’re not too ras but at the same time, we’re demonstrating the appropriate level of concern about potential outcomes. But we’re trying to communicate with people that we don’t know enough to make good decisions that are very long term right now.
Michael Boodro 19:57
And I think it’s interesting. I do think there’s going to be a huge amount of pent up demand. And when that pent up demand will be released, we can’t say, but I, I personally know I’m dying to go to a restaurant and I’m dying to go to a museum. I think we’ve all realized how important home is to us. And I do think that that’s going to be very good for our industry, because we’ve been spending so much time in our homes. We know what works, what doesn’t work, what we love about our homes, what doesn’t, and what we don’t love so much about our homes. I think people are going to really, you know, want to focus on their homes and improving their homes when they can, but we don’t know when that’s going to be. Which raises another issue which I’ve been going through myself. You know, I’m up in my house in Connecticut. Every day I wake up, and it’s sadly been mostly gray the last few days. And you do feel like you’re going through Groundhog Day, you know yet another day of is this a Tuesday or is it Friday? You’re not even sure. So how do you motivate your team? Because I think this is going to be an issue for a lot of designers. And I’d love to hear from all of you on that and maybe start with you Celerie because you have the smallest team so it’s more personal in a way. But how do you get people to stay motivated and working and put the fear aside?
Celerie Kemble 21:11
Well, we’re a bit of a commission based industry, so that keeps motivation high. And that is meaning that we need to stay in communication with our clients, and continue to excite them about what feels possible. So I think getting better at our presentation skills, and finding beautiful imagery, and doing better drawings. There’s an aspect to what we’ve lost touch with in our constant rush. Because I think one of the hardest elements of our business is the stop start. Everybody wants everything in a minute. And you lose what used to be the artistry of the design business, which was being able to communicate a completed vision, and to articulate it artistically or technologically. And I think we’re kind of excited now to go back to the roots of really taking time to do our sourcing and to present it. So in a way we’re getting to do what we love. And we have to do it because we need to remind people of what they can accomplish with their homes. We have the floor plans and we have pictures of empty spaces, and there’s almost a little more time to be imaginative, because we’re not responding to fires.
Michael Boodro 22:29
Right. I think about and envision as opposed to I want this chair or that chair or what the rooms gonna be like and the house is gonna be like. Do you have that group, email or chat thing? Do you do that every morning? How do you run the office day to day?
Celerie Kemble 22:32
I have a bruise in my back pocket where my phone has been vibrating but it’s fun to look at it right now. Things don’t feel quite as naggy and everybody is either sharing something funny, or something touching.
Michael Boodro 22:59
There is a lot of humor, a lot of memes and funny things going around.
Celerie Kemble 23:03
Or there are real problems to solve. I like how people are putting things out with okay, I can’t eat tuna fish again. Or, you know, everybody’s sharing these little things. And they’re much more helpful to one another.
Michael Boodro 23:16
Peter, how do you work with that in terms of not only DLN but even Waterworks? Is that something that you have to think about or do you have your troops so well trained that they just go right into a fighting position?
Peter Sallick 23:27
What I would say is that years of planning have all gone out the window. And so this has been a period of intense actual work to really try to recast plans for every facet of both Waterworks and the DLN. And so there’s no shortage of activity. I’ll say a couple things. You know, you all know me, and I believe this is when it’s really critical for leaders to lead. And so, you know, for all of us on this call and for anyone listening, who is, you know, running a design firm, or whether you’re talking about your own employees, or your partners around the community, this is where it counts, to step up and really communicate effectively, frequently and clearly. And really know what you want to say to people. So that you can both inspire them and reassure them, but also be honest with them about the challenges. So that’s a big part of what I’m focused on. And then the other thing I would just say is that it’s kind of interesting with Zoom, and WebEx and all the tools that we’re using right now, it’s, in some ways we’re paying more attention. Because if you go to a big meeting room, everyone’s kind of looking around or at their phones out the window, whatever it might be, when we’re on these calls, we are looking each other in the eye. In this grid, we’re actually I think, in some ways more attentive than we ever are otherwise. And so I found this tool, super important and really valuable and a great way to sort of talk to people maybe even more directly, and we might in other situations outside of this context.
Michael Boodro 25:04
Yeah. And I think it’s interesting what you said, I think it’s so true about being direct and honest. I mean, I think that’s the reason that so many people who live in other states are looking to Governor Cuomo in New York, because he doesn’t sugarcoat. And I think it’s important at this time, which is difficult for many design firms. I’m sure there are people furloughing. I know there are firms who are furloughing, and people are laying them off. And, you know, you cannot pretend that something different is happening. I found that in those cases in the past where I’ve had to layoff people, if you’re just very honest and direct, even if you’re laying them off, because they’re doing a crappy job, which, you know, does happen as well, but if you’re honest about that, I think it always goes so much better. And people respect you much more and everybody else on the team who’s not been laid off, will respect you more. I mean, leadership is so crucial at this time. It’s not an easy thing for a lot of people to do. And a lot of people went into design, never thinking they’d have to be a leader per se, they wanted to be creative. They wanted to do beautiful rooms and create beautiful buildings. But you know, you manage a team, you have to be a leader. And this is when you know, as you were saying, people reveal themselves. So I’d love to know what you are doing in terms of Chairish, because, you know, you guys are so much more high-tech than I certainly am. And I think a lot of people are but yet, you know, you have a great office there and people aren’t going into the office. Now, how do you keep them motivated and informed?
Anna Brockway 26:37
Well on the motivation side, you know, we support 10,000 sellers. And so hearing from them over the past three weeks that we’re sort of it, and, you know, the only place to sell things right now is online. And the only place to buy things right now is online. And I think the team, many of whom spent a lot of time with our selling and buying communities, including myself, recognize that’s a big responsibility, and what our role is in helping small businesses make it and survive as much as they can through online sales, and also helping to keep designers and all of our buyers inspired and engaged. So I think it’s actually sort of a sobering reality for our team, that there’s a real responsibility that comes with us in terms of who we support as a community. And then in terms of just the operational side of staying in touch, you know, we’ve been operating virtually for a really long time. We have people all over the country, an office in New York and an office in San Francisco. So a lot of these tools and ways of communicating are things that we’re used to. That said, one change that’s happened is it felt like everyone sort of started working in Zoom and conference calls sort of within their teams. And the idea of getting everybody together in larger groups has been more challenging. And we actually had an opportunity to do that. I brought the whole marketing and PR team together yesterday and it was like people were so happy to see each other. You know, not just your voice, and not just get an email, not just get a message on Slack but to really actually visually connect with people was really important. So I think one of the requests was how can we do that more? The other thing I would say that’s been really interesting, just from a community standpoint, is our engagement and traffic on our social channels is bananas right now. And we’re also seeing a really big increase in the amount of traffic we’re getting on mobile to the site. And so one of the things I think that’s happening is just people increasingly looking for connection and looking for inspiration, and just spending a ton of time on their phones. And so that’s been a really interesting thing to observe as well.
Michael Boodro 28:55
Yeah, I think social media has really become a kind of community organizer in a way. You have your group of friends that you follow. And it’s another way of letting people know I’m here, I’m healthy, or whatever, if they’re not so healthy, what they’re going through. And it’s had a huge impact on the design industry to begin with. That was our previous Chairish podcast on how you use social media. Because it’s such a huge tool, but I think now it’s really a connecting social thing. You know, the social side of social media is coming through as opposed to the professional side of it.
Anna Brockway 29:31
Yeah, it’s funny. I’ve always had kind of a long arms relationship with social media and that you love it, but you also sort of hated it. And now it’s like, I feel like I’d be so lonely without it because it is helping you connect with people. And it keeps you going.
Michael Boodro 29:47
I think connection is key.
Celerie Kemble 29:49
I have to say thank you to Chairish because so is shopping. We’re all tired of looking in our own pantries, so we have a sort of world of product and vintage pieces in color and other people’s ideas. I think that I have always loved a flea market more than anything else, because you have no idea how much you’re going to encounter. And I feel like as I’m looking at Chairish and shopping for my clients, I’m reminded that we actually have much more access, sitting at my little desk, with the doors barricaded against my children. I can go into 1000s of stores, and 20 years ago, that didn’t exist. I can only, you know, shop at my New York dealers, or make a trip once every four months to go, you know, to Europe. Now, it’s all right here. So in a way we have more, and it’s just interesting to be given the opportunity to use our resources this way.
Anna Brockway 30:50
Yeah, thank you. One of the great things that has been interesting for our business in the past month has been our listings are through the roof. So we’ve never had more people selling with us, which is fantastic. Because to Celerie’s point, it just brings more choices and surprises onto the site. But also, because of the diversity of the range of sellers that we have and their geographic location, we’re always shipping and we can always roll the truck. And we’ve been able to keep business going, which I think is great and speaks to the power of marketplaces and bringing lots of people from lots of different places together.
Peter Sallick 31:35
Maybe to comment on the other side of that equation, which might provide sort of the balancing side of that, which is that this is also a time when personal relationships matter enormously. And when I think about the world that I live in, if you didn’t know your clients before, you’re probably not going to get to know them well now. And so it highlights this idea that we are a community in which these personal relationships matter a lot. And this is a time when the conversations that take place, I think can become even more powerful if you’ve really handled them well over time, and they reflect the best of what you try to bring to each conversation, not just in the crisis, but over many, many, many years.
Michael Boodro 32:24
Right. And I think that’s something that we need to look at, too, and firms should be looking at, because, you know, I know, I’d get daily emails from companies big and small, fabric companies, designers, but the question is, how much of that communication is really valuable? Oh, did you know I’m still here? You know, is that something that everybody needs to hear? Or how can you make it more pertinent and, and powerful when you’re reaching out to somebody? Because, you know, it doesn’t necessarily help me to know that the Asia week that happens in New York has been postponed. I mean, well, I’m not a collector of Asian art but I’m on these mailing lists for different reasons. But do you know what I mean? I mean, we’re all getting almost daily updates from companies and is that beneficial? Or is that annoying? Who wants to weigh in?
Celerie Kemble 33:14
I hate to say something negative. But I have to say I’m drowning. in senseless, repetitive reach out.
Michael Boodro 33:25
But that’s sort of how I feel. So thank you for backing me up Celerie. You know, I don’t want to be negative. But I think people need to think better about how they’re communicating. I think what you were saying, Peter, is that this is a business of personal relationships. So strengthen those. And yes, you have to let your clients and the world know that you’re here. But I don’t think you have to repeat that every day during a long term shutdown or slow down like this, you know. But how do you make your communications really help? I mean, and I think it’s really important that we, you know, it’s everybody from your hair cutter, or your colorist, or, your cleaning lady to keep in touch with these people and make sure that they’re okay. Whether you’re paying them or not, just letting them know that you really want to reconnect when things are safer again, but how do you do it in an important way. Celerie?
Celerie Kemble 34:15
I really appreciate it when I have a communication that comes from somebody I know. So when it is my salesperson, who I trust that they know my business, they know my needs, and I want to hear that they’re okay. I’m a little bit fatigued at receiving corporate emails, because I don’t need to be reminded of somebody’s address, you know, which is essentially what is being thrown at me by my mailbox. So it speaks to the importance of the personal relationship with salespeople, and maybe some of the companies will understand that even if the showrooms are closed, that they need their employees because their employees hold the relationships. I have a totally different response when it comes from somebody I know.
Michael Boodro 34:58
Right, that you’ve dealt with before. Yes, I would agree. And Peter and what about Waterworks? Is that something that, you know, you have the people who your salespeople reach out directly to their clients as opposed to a corporate email saying, oh, Waterworks still exists, we’re here.
Peter Sallick 35:14
Yeah, I think there’s a little bit of the corporate stuff that is required, because, ya know, companies have giant audiences or large audiences that it’s hard to imagine getting to every single person that you might do business with. But I think the more important thing, by far are these relationships that I was referring to, and exactly what Celerie is saying is, is the key is to check in and just make sure you’re acknowledging that this is the time when we want to make sure everybody’s safe, and also see what you can do to help. Like, one of the things that’s been surprising to me on DLN community calls, is the level of concern that designers are sharing about the availability of product to support ongoing projects. And it’s really quite variable, what companies can and can’t do right now, depending on what is happening in their supply chains. And then with respect to national and international and even local rules.
Michael Boodro 36:14
Yeah, I have friends who have a rug company, and most of their stuff is made in China or India. And that’s all shut down.
Peter Sallick 36:21
But we’ve had incredible conversations simply about going line by line to every client’s projects, quotes and orders, and really trying to make sure that we know the status of every line, and we can share that with every client so they can be reassured and updated on what’s happening depending on what’s what’s happening out there in the world. So it’s not about selling, it’s about making sure people really have the information they need. And that there’s a sense that we really care.
Michael Boodro 36:50
Right. And I think that’s one of the most important things. What you’re doing is really showing that you care. And I think that is such a crucial thing and it’s what’s going to get us all together through these difficult times. Because, even if you have to put something on hold, it doesn’t mean you’re caring about it. And we can let people into that sensibility that you were really here for them. You’re doing anything you can, but there are certain things you can’t do. We can’t lie about this kind of situation. And we can’t be unrealistic. But I think showing that you care is going to make the difference. So how does Chairish do that in terms of your frequent vendors? Have you had people reach out to them as well or from them?
Anna Brockway 37:38
Yeah, of course. So one group of vendors and I hate using the word vendors, but these happen to be antique dealers, and vintage dealers who regularly show at High Point in the antique and design center there. And then also 214 Modern, which is a collective, and we’ve just had all those guys sell with us. It’s a great relationship, it’s been established to Peter’s and Celerie’s point about the quality of relationships. We know each other, you know. We do a lot to support them, and they’ve done a lot to support us. And when this was canceled, it was like a big deal. And so we’re going to be doing a special feature just on the dealer’s of High Point. And you know, I know Celerie, we’ve done stuff down there together as well. It’s a venue that designers love to come to, to source and find beautiful things. And so by doing features and stories, and creating opportunities to shine a spotlight on certain communities and help them to connect with buyers, I think is a really important way to help keep this business going. While we can’t meet in real life, we do care. I mean, this is how we built the business, by supporting small sellers and connecting them to taste making buyers and so of course we care.
Peter Sallick 38:54
Right. Right.
Michael Boodro 38:56
And one of the things I would like to get back to was, you know, now that so much of stuff is online, by necessity for the moment, is that going to have a detrimental impact on brick and mortar? How do we prevent that from happening from showrooms? Are designers going to get out of the habit of going to show rooms? I mean, Macy’s just laid off and like you were saying, everything’s bought now online. But how do we get this industry so that once we get back to whatever the new normal is, we can sustain brick and mortar showrooms and antique dealers and all of that. I mean, is that something we need to think about?
Anna Brockway 39:36
I think that one thing we’re learning from this is personal connection. And in real life stuff is still really important. And I think we’re all homesick for it. And I think you’ve heard that from everybody today. And certainly I hear it and talk with people. So I don’t think we see and I don’t think we’ve ever seen online as a way of fully replacing brick and mortar. I like to use examples from the fashion industry, which is where my background is and I think the home industry generally tends to follow suit. But right now, within the home space, about 15% of all purchases within the home furnishings industry are done online. And you look at fashion, which I consider to be much more developed in terms of online, and was one of the first categories to really move there. I could have this wrong, I think it’s closer to 40, or 50%, which means still more than around half or more is still happening offline. So when you think about that, I mean, first off, it shows tremendous runway and opportunities still in the online space for the home industry but it also shows that I think there’s this false sense that it’s an either or choice. And I think the answer is yes. And I think we’ll find that that’s particularly meaningful for people after we have gone through this period of isolation from each other in the physical world.
Michael Boodro 40:52
And Peter, Waterworks is not thinking of doing any fewer showrooms or closing any showrooms or anything like that, are you?
Peter Sallick 40:59
No. To answer your question, Michael, the way I look at it is that designers were already changing their behaviors and shopping showrooms less right before the crisis. And I think that that will continue to evolve as Anna’s suggesting that this is a long term change that’s taking place. And so I think what this becomes is an opportunity for all kinds of brands to rethink their physical presence. And the onus is on companies to actually make their showrooms worth visiting. So it’s not saying like, well, everything’s gonna move online, or that things will stay the same. The answer is, it’s all evolving. And so it’s incumbent upon companies, leaders and companies to really understand what they can do to one enhance their online presence. But secondly, to really enhance their showroom experience. You know, one of the things that’s probably at the highest level of my concern right now, as a business leader, is that our biggest investment ever is in our 58th Street location that is in construction as we speak. And now of course, is a job site shut down in New York City. Well, I’m so excited about the opportunity to present a reimagined experience for our clients in this offline space. Yet at the same time, we’re racing ahead, even everyday right now to just continue to release new versions of our digital experience. So I think that’s what the world looks like. And you’re seeing it take shape every day. I think it’s all good.
Michael Boodro 41:25
Okay, Celerie. How about you and your team because I know certain designers even way before the Coronavirus had impacted our lives, were complaining that they couldn’t get their younger staff to go to showrooms and that everything was online. Do you think that your team is looking forward to going back to the showroom?
Celerie Kemble 42:49
Oh, I think that certain showrooms knock it out of the park. They make the experience of being there a learning experience, and they make it inspiring. And I think Waterworks does a fantastic job of that because you can look at many different variations on beautiful green subway tiles. And it’s not exciting, because eventually you’re minted out. But you go into the Waterworks showroom, and you see the difference between the crackle glaze and the matte finish, when you put the tiles up vertically, when you change the running bond. And photographs in a computer are never going to make you feel the difference and our design business is all about the subtleties of sight and perception. And those can only be judged in person. And I’m so grateful when it’s well displayed because it allows me also to take my clients to see it. And there’s a reason they’re spending additional money and shopping from specialized craftspeople. So I think showrooms are absolutely essential, and so is High Point. Because sometimes it’s the only place you get to see a full line of products. Because real estate is so expensive, you can’t put 45 sofas and all the lighting and console tables and coffee tables and chairs out together. So it’s important that we have the ability to target the information when and where we need it as designers. But I also had a comment, speaking to Anna’s idea that we follow the fashion business, I have quite a few friends in the fashion business and when they sell clothing online, the return rates I hear are upwards for around 50% with clothing because people buy things in multiples, and in our business, we don’t have that option because shipping is too expensive and breakage is too high. So I think there will always be a reliance on getting it right by seeing it in person because you can’t shop quite the same way online except in the vintage market. But if something is one of a kind, you do have to take your chance on it. And that’s part of the thrill. So there seems to be a place for every point of sale. But I really appreciate the people are showing things well, and both Chairish and Waterworks rock.
Michael Boodro 45:17
They are very complimentary of each other. I mean, that’s the way design is going. And even in the showrooms long before this, we’re saying their foot traffic may bend down, but when designers came in, they were much more informed because they had done research and then seen things online. So I mean, they’re definitely mutually beneficial, and both are necessary, but it’s just interesting how the proportion is going to go. And I do think that, you know, I’m looking to go out and touch some tiles and, you know, I just want to feel things, you know, sit in things, feel things, go to the theater. I think we all appreciate that even more, now that we’ve been deprived of it. And I think actually the showroom has made people undergo a little bit of research and a foot foot traffic in a way. So I can’t thank you guys enough for all of this. I wanted to ask just one last thing. What would be your best piece of advice to a small design firm at this very moment that is dealing with all this disruption and the scary lack of knowledge that they don’t know what’s going to happen? What would be the most important thing that you could say to a firm, a designer, or a boss at this very moment? Why don’t we start with you, Peter?
Peter Sallick 46:37
A lot of things are going through my mind right now. But I think that at the end of the day, we all have to focus on this idea that we will get through this. And so it’s challenging, and it’s forcing us to do things differently than we’ve done before. And to really look hard at our businesses and our partners, our employees, and everything that is going on around us to make sure we really have a handle on it. But at the end of the day, we will get through this. And that’s really kind of what keeps me motivated and keeps me focused. It’s really this idea that, you know, we’ve had experiences in the past that have been challenging, and we’ve gotten through those. And we will continue to do that. And my view is that the design industry was at its highest point in a very long time, just before this crisis, in terms of activity and excitement and innovation. And I think that this reset here will get people to like, look hard at what’s really working, and then elevate those parts. And in the end, we’ll be at a further heightened place as we recover and really have a chance to put our best foot forward again in the future.
Michael Boodro 47:43
Great. Anna, what would you say?
Anna Brockway 47:45
I think it’s about getting innovative. So one of the things that often happens at times of historic disruption like this is it’s a force function to get people to try things and approaches and ways of working and ways of selling and ways of buying that they haven’t traditionally done. And so I think that in many ways, a lot of innovation comes out of trying circumstances like this, because there is no other option. And so my piece of advice is to be willing to break some rules and try some new approaches. Yeah, just try it. That’s one of our things we say at Chairish, let’s try it. And I think that it’s really important right now.
Michael Boodro 48:35
Great. Celerie, how about you?
Celerie Kemble 48:38
I’m very close to what Anna’s saying. I think our business is about imagination, and communicating that imagination. So even in a time where we may not have concrete follow through, I think we should be communicating to our clients – what we would like for them and hearing what they would like from us, and laying the groundwork and getting that done. And maybe to help support each other in the industry. See if we can get basic orders ready to go. I would love to see people working out a new system, which is a tentative order. Or take the measurements you can, get the estimates for the fabric quantities you’re going to need, communicate with your clients and say, you know, how likely are we to be doing this as soon as it’s ready and then pass that information along to your vendors so they can manage their timeline. Then it will help stop a real lag due to inertia and then a painful surge when nobody can handle the work. And it’ll let people realize that if they don’t continue their work, they’re gonna get stuck in a terrible mind. Some of the people who have the ability financially to commit to work now should realize they should or they’re not going to see their homes finished till next Easter.
Michael Boodro 49:55
Right.
Celerie Kemble 49:56
That would also create confidence.
Michael Boodro 49:59
Because there is going to be pent up demand. I totally agree with you. Well, I guess what I’m hearing is that designers need to think big, think differently, and keep moving ahead, keep in touch with everybody that you deal with, whether it’s a client, an artist and a vendor. And as Peter said, know that we’re going to get through this and keep moving ahead, as best as you can. And I think we all have to laugh a little in the process. You know, home is going to be more important than ever. It has proven itself to be more important than ever already. And people are going to love their homes way more and appreciate them way more, and want to invest in them. And then we just have to be ready for that moment because I think the value of home and beautiful design has become really more evident than it ever was in the past. I want to thank my wonderful guests, Anna Brockway, Celerie Kemble, and Peter Sallick. Thank you all so much.
